Updated Dec 6, 2009 - 10:16 pm

Ichiro, Figgins and the Batting Order

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Arrived in Indianapolis a short while ago and have been approached by many reporters from different cities and asked what the Mariners are going to do. Safe to say all eyes are on the team and the money they have to spend or the trade possibilities Jack Z could come up with. Should be an interesting four days.

Baring anything unforeseen at some point the Chone Figgins deal will be officially announced and the Mariners will have two leadoff hitters. I remember a few years ago shortly after Figgins took over the leadoff spot in Anaheim I wandered into the visiting clubhouse when the Angels were in town to check out the lineup. The name at the top of the nine on the scorecard? Chone. Not Figgins, but Chone. It was a little joke Mike Sciocia was playing. He made a comment about the other guy going by his first name only so why couldn't his? The next day it was back to Figgins.

So who will it be Opening Day? I ask you, what should the order be?

By all means look at the numbers, but also look at the situation realistically. For many years the possibility of moving Ichiro in the lineup has been debated. There has been a popular notion that Ichiro could all of a sudden morph into a three hitter if needed. That he had the skills to hit 30-40 homeruns if he wanted to.

Is it really that easy? Managers who have been faced with the possibility of moving him have always considered something that numbers cannot reflect. The player himself. Will this work for the player, will the player be able to buy in enough to make it right and what are the odds that such move could have a negative effect on the player.

A second question would be, who would be the better two hitter?

A third question, who would you rather give an extra at bat to or who would you rather see get that at bat at the end of the game?

By the way, I sat down with Ichiro recently for an interview that will run later in the month and I asked him about the notion so many people had, thinking that by this point in his career at age 35 he would be a different hitter, the three hitter who hit 30 homeruns. He told me that he had to shut out of his mind those who thought negatively of him in that regard. I pointed out that being a three hitter was not necessarily something negative. He agreed, but said that to him, for someone who has no control over the situation to make such an appraisal, that was negative. Basically they were saying to him that they did not believe he could be what he was.

It is personal for Ichiro. Beyond the hits, beyond the at bats, being the leadoff hitter is a part of him. The work that he puts in to play at the level he does in part makes it personal. Do you want to know when Ichiro's preparations for 2010 began? October 6th.

"I remember waking up on Oct. 5 and thinking to myself no baseball today I don't have to face all the pressure and I remember feeling really good waking up that morning." Ichiro told me after a recent workout. "But still I told myself, "Don't hold a bat, don't pick up a bat!" But once a few hours passed by I had the feeling that I wanted to pick up a bat, really bad, so I really had to suppress that feeling of wanting to pick up a bat. By Oct. 6 I had to pick up a bat."

Regardless of order this pair is going to be fun to watch on and off the field. On the field they have the potential to drive opposing pitchers nuts. Off the field, well Don Wakamatsu knows Figgins from his time in the Anaheim organization and says that the personalities should mesh well.

I have not had an opportunity to talk to Figgins this off season but I remember talking to him years ago and I remember him asking me questions about Ichiro. I have got to think that he is going to watch Ichiro carefully as another guy who is not too big, very fast but five years older. If you were in a similar situation, wouldn't you want to know Ichiro's secret? For those of you who are worried about the length of the Figgins contract and where he could be physically four years from now, well maybe he will learn a thing or two from Ichiro about not slowing down.

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• diderot wrote...

  Ichiro and batting order

  I'm not sure what to make of the idea that it's 'personal' to Ichiro. From his response last year, it seems like he likes winning a lot more than losing (no surprise there), and that at his age, he'd like to do whatever he can to get to a World Series, That means making the team better. And at first blush, I think that means Figgins hitting first and Ichiro second: -- Figgins has a slightly higher on base percentage -- At this point, Figgins is a bigger base stealing threat -- Because of his incredible bat control, I would love to see Ichiro step to the plate so regularly with Figgins being held at first...with that gaping hole on the right side...and one of the two middle infielders pinched toward second to take the throw on the steal attempt. I think this could take Ichiro back into the neighborhood of 240-250 hits. And most of all, it seems to me like it would make the team better.

  December 6, 2009 9:56 pm

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• Blahthethird wrote...

  Ichiro

  I would think the logical choice would be to bat ichiro in the lead off spot.. my reasoning is very simple. Ichiro takes very little walks so most of his game is swinging away.. where as chone has a much more patient approach.. but they both get on base at a high rate (ichiro more so in his career)so the question to me is who would better fit the two hole and to me thats chone.. because say ichiro gets on you have a higher chance to have 2 men on than one to none if ichiro leads off. because hes more likely to enduce a ground ball whereas because chone walks itd increase the ammount of runners on for the middle of the order

  December 6, 2009 10:18 pm

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• TonyNYC wrote...

  Ichiro in the leadoff spot is a nonbrainer

  Thank you again Shannon for great Mariner coverage and analysis. The reasons you gave were on the money. I definitely would rather give an extra at bat to Ichiro than to Figgens. Not to mention that Figgens is better suited to the 2 hole. I love how somebody above took a number from Figgen's career year and tried to make an argument for it over 9 straight years of Ichiro excellence. Ichiro belongs in the spot where he's excelled in. And if we were projecting based on career years, then where are Beltre's Homerun King awards? Come on. At least I'm sure that GMZ and Wak will be savvy enough to see the whole picture and will not try to move Ichiro out of position.

  December 7, 2009 5:35 am

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• JakeSuds wrote...

  Why change his habits?

  I think I get what Ichiro! is saying here. He has been going about his business in preparation to be the best leadoff hitter that he can be... it's been this way for a long time. Why change? He is the best. He is also saying (politely) that we fans are not the coach so we shouldn't concern ourselves with this matter. Hits are going to be what everyone remembers about his legacy, not RBIs, homeruns or being tickled. Chone will be a great #2 hitter.

  December 7, 2009 8:03 am

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• mf Lance wrote...

  What's best for team, Ichiro amd Chone

  I hope Ichiro can learn to appreciate how much personal benefit it would be for him if he hits behind Chone, for both of them. If Ichiro has a weakness it's his willingness to work pitchers. However, with Chone leading off he'll get bigger holes in the infield, as mentioned earlier, which will increase his hit totals (making 3,000 hits a real possibility. I'd think he'd like that). Ichiro will also get to watch the pitcher working to Chone to start a game, seeing how sharp said pitcher is or isn't. I hope Ichiro can put his ego aside, a tall order for him I understand, and do what's best for the team. That's to have Chone lead off and Ichiro hit #2. That's really the no-brainer here. As I see it wanting to keep Ichiro leading off is a view based more on sentimentality and tradition and a desire to keep him happy. Bottom line: I doubt Jack and Don are going to play that game, however. They'll do what's best for the team. Chone #1, Ichiro #2.

  December 7, 2009 10:29 am

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• TonyNYC wrote...

  What's best for the team is Ichiro at #1

  Ichiro Suzuki career stats (significant sample size): .333/.378/.434 Chone Figgens career stats (significant sample size): .291/.363/.388 Nobrainer who should bat first and also get more at bats. I notice that the poster above criticised sentimentality etc. without a shred of fact to back it up. And claimed something about a bottom line. Thankfully, "Jack and Don" are smarter than that.

  December 8, 2009 3:56 am

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• jbraider69 wrote...

  Ichiro-Figgins

  I think these two as a 1-2 punch early in the lineup gives us the best chance to score early in games. Hopefully Jack Z. can come up with a big bat to the 4 or five spot(no Griffeys not it) that can do real damage for a team lingering around the bottom in scoring offense last year. BOOM GOES THE DYNAMTE, Mister Calabro! jb

  December 8, 2009 8:01 am

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